Blasphemous Nutrition

Overcoming Perfectionism and Harnessing ADHD to Build Lasting Habits with Robyn Shaw

• Aimee Gallo • Episode 24

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Join us on this empowering episode as Aimee welcomes Robyn Shaw, who opens up about her transformative journey from the grips of perfectionism in fitness and nutrition to a place of greater balance and self-compassion. Delving into her personal battles with body dysmorphia, Robyn illuminates the pivotal moments that led her to take the reins of her health into her own hands. She underscores the critical importance of gathering diverse perspectives and learning to trust the wisdom of your own body. Throughout their conversation, Robyn stresses the value of embracing imperfections and cultivating resilience, showing us that true health is about harmony and happiness, not just hard numbers and perfect forms. Tune in as they explore these intimate revelations and share insights on nurturing a healthy, joyous life.

Key Takeaways:

  • Breaking free from the perfectionist mindset is an ongoing process that requires self-awareness and self-compassion.
  • Developing resilience and being prepared for challenges is crucial in maintaining consistency in health and wellness habits.

Notable Quotes:

  • "I think that's the biggest cause of self-sabotage, the original plan not going as planned, and you see that as an excuse to screw it."
  • "Every challenge is an opportunity to get stronger and develop as a person."
  • "Expect things to go differently than you initially planned and be prepared to adapt and find creative solutions."

Resources:

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Hey Rebels, welcome to Blasphemous Nutrition. Consider this podcast your pantry full of clarity, perspective, and the nuance needed to counter the superficial health advice so freely given on the internet. I'm Amy, the unapologetically candid host of Blasphemous Nutrition and a double degreed nutritionist with 20 years experience. I'm here to share a more nuanced take. On living and eating well to sustain and recover your health. If you've found most health advice to be so generic as to be meaningless, We're so extreme that it's unrealistic, and you don't mind the occasional F bomb. You've come to the right place. From dissecting the latest nutrition trends to breaking down published research and sharing my own clinical experiences, I'm on a mission to foster clarity amidst all the confusion and empower you to have the health you need to live a life you love. Now let's get started.

Aimee:

Robyn Shaw is an author, business owner, CrossFit coach, and Precision Nutrition nutrition coach. She has dedicated the last 10 years of her life to helping recovering crash dieters achieve their healthiest and happiest body in a sustainable way.

In today's conversation, Robin and I cover the gamut, from overcoming a perfectionist mindset to the state of parenting and healthcare in the Western world. Robin shares her experiences and offer some wonderful tips to help with creating consistency when you have anxiety and ADHD, that gets in the way of building habits. She also talks a lot about her personal experience with perfectionism and body image. As well as disordered health behaviors, what she has done to transition into a healthier perspective for herself and how she utilizes that when working with others. Rather than being an interview today's episode is really more like an insider conversation between two professionals in the health space, where we dish on what we find works and doesn't, and well, even talk a little smack about the industry and what it is like to actually try and make it as what is called a solo preneur or independent business owner. I do hope you enjoy today's episode. So let's get to it. You

Aimee:

Robyn, I'm so glad to welcome you to Blasphemous Nutrition. I feel like we are aligned with so many things and it's always just good fun to shoot the shit with a peer

Robyn:

in the field. Right? Exactly. That's how I feel. That's, I feel like we instantly connected over Facebook and I'm like, I'm just excited to chat with you and see where we're at. Yeah, totally.

Aimee:

And then, you know, doing a little bit of homework on you, I found so many, there's so many things I want to talk to you about. So cool. Great. Let's go. Let's do it. I'm just gonna dive in. Um, yeah, there's many aspects that you allude to about your own story that I feel would be really helpful For my listeners to, to know, to get that firsthand experience, That firsthand vicarious living through what you've experienced. A couple of things that really come to mind is how you talk about breaking free from the perfectionist mindset. When it comes to fitness and nutrition and physique, like how did you liberate yourself from those. From that tiny box of perfection.

Robyn:

I think I'm still in the process of doing that, right? Like, it's,, I would be lying if I said that I had no days anymore where I catch myself in that mindset still, right? And so, Just like anything, especially if we're on the topic of like health and wellness, we're going to be talking in total con like areas of gray and nuance always, there's always going to be that. So I think that's, that reigns true to something like this as well, where it's it's not just a switch that turned off, right? Like, God, no. Like I'm still in the middle of trying to like, go through that process. And, and that's a really good question. I think, I mean, it's, it's, it's come for me in like so many different areas. So the first one was. the first kind of rein that I tried to break free from was the physical, uh, appearance side of things. And so this goes like probably as far back as 10 years when I first started coaching. Well, I've been coaching in some aspect for closer to 15 years. Cause I started off as a swim coach before I went into CrossFit and stuff like that. But

Aimee:

you were a

Robyn:

competitive swimmer, right? Yeah. In your youth. Competitive

Aimee:

swimmer for a long time. do you feel that that shaped some of that mindset that drive

Robyn:

to. Yes. So there was, in a way, it was an expectation to live up to the athlete, kind of like, like, I have a history of being an athlete and then I, Took a long break. So just to give some extra context here, I was a swimmer and very competitive when I was quite young. And I quit when I was 15, which is like at your peak, right? These Olympians are 15, right? It's, that's basically your peak. and so I quit when I was 15. And then what else was, what else happens at your life when you're a 15 year old girl in high school, you want to be social, you want to drink, you want to go out, you're starting to get into partying. you know, I was going into grade 11, almost my senior year of high school., and then, so I, I went into that and I fell into that like really hard, I rebelled against kind of that 5am deck time, 5am training and plus, two days in the pool. And I rejected that whole, that whole life and fell into the party scene. And I did that really aggressively. until my second year university. So it was like four or five years of me, heavy into drinking, heavy into partying late nights. And I went into art school too, right? So it's it's not, it's not uncommon for people to Bring a glass of wine to, or like bring cooler of wine to art class while we're drawing, right? Like people did not bat an eye at it. Like that culture and the art scene and stuff It was like, yeah, stay up late, drink, party, socialize, go to gallery openings,. And so the reason why I say that is because when I finally started to, and really wanted to like pull myself out of that. I went into a CrossFit gym. Well, I was working out for a little bit, but when I did go into a CrossFit gym and was given the opportunity to start coaching, I think there was like this pressure and expectation of me to look a certain way, right? and I had gained weight over the course of, of partying and all those years, like a significant amount of weight. and I, Was starting to try and reel it back in and find my best body, my happiest body, my happiest self. But of course, in that process, you start to develop severe body dysmorphia. You start to compare yourself with people around you. Now I'm coaching and I have all eyes on me. In the gym, I'm coaching a class of 30 plus people and there's this expectation that you should be looking a certain way if you're going to coach these people. This is what I thought anyways. So it was an

Aimee:

internally driven expectation.

Robyn:

It was an internally driven expectation. And there also were comments made. So I, My older brother is a, like one of the fittest men on earth. And I don't even say that exaggeratingly. Like he was, went to the CrossFit games, competed at a very, very high level. Like an absolute animal in the gym. My younger sister is no different. She is, um, incredible, incredible athlete. And, my younger brother, so there's three, there's four of us total. My younger brother is, really, really amazing at his craft, which is BJJ, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. And everybody knows this because we're all kind of on social media. And, and so there would be comments, especially because I was coaching CrossFit. And they knew who my brother was because he's a public figure in CrossFit. They knew who my sister was because she's very good at CrossFit. And then, there would be kind of backhanded comments of like, Oh, what happened to you? Right. Oh, like, are you going to compete this year and try and catch up with your sister or like things like that? Right. And I know that it was like, ha ha joke. I laugh it off, like whatever. But that, that stings, right? Like that is like, Oh, okay. I need to, I need to get my shit together. Like I need to start competing against. none other than my own family, which is not great, right? When you're starting to like, fight that internally. So I then from 2015 to 2017, 2018, I would spend two and a half hours in the gym. I hired a coach of all sorts. I was like the absolute, like quintessential CrossFit nerd. And did every, eat, sleep, breathe, CrossFit. looking back, it was like the worst thing that I've, that I did to my body. I got down to like 14 percent body fat. I was, training not sustainably. I was not eating to support the amount of training that I was doing. I was eating like 1500 calories a day to try and look a certain way, but at the same time training even more to try and perform a certain way. And so that impact on your menstrual cycle, so, I was on an IUD and I still am so that and yeah, so I don't know. I mean jump forward to me being 30 almost 33 now and I still have an IUD like ready to get it taken out any minute now because we want to start a family and this will be the first time where I actually understand my own menstrual cycle, which is crazy to think about, right? yeah, so yes, I don't know to answer your question like, I actually have no idea. It could, it could very well have. but so to answer your initial question of like, how did I break free? Well, there's multiple, there's been multiple things that I've had to break free from. The first one is that physical, the physical appearance and like the expectations of living up to being what people think or what I thought a fitness CrossFit coach should look like and act like. Yeah, right. And, and I feel, I think since I've, it's been years and years and years to get past that one, I can pretty confidently say that I am, I don't give a fuck anymore. I'm really happy about that. That is probably one where I'm like, I do not care. And I have, no desire to get that lean and work out that much at all, which is so liberating.

Aimee:

Absolutely. And real quick, I'm curious, how did your siblings respond to watching you go through that journey?

Robyn:

My older brother being an older brother, he is very protective, right? And yeah, he was concerned, but he would, I, He was concerned. I only knew that from one or two very small comments. That he would make, not even directly to me, but to my sister, to my family, saying like, Oh, I hope she's eating. Like, she's really lean. Is she okay? And I think my, my sister and I are funny. In the sense that we have such a close relationship, but we're both competitive. So we kind of fed off of each other. So I don't know. And it's so funny that this is not fully transparent. Like, this is not a conversation, like a fully open conversation that I've had with either of them, because I think I just was like, okay, I need to work this on my own. I need to get through this on my own. It's not their fault. Right, you know, like their fault. So I don't want to burden them with this, right? They did nothing wrong. This was all me. So I'm going to try and work on this on my own. And, and I did. I mean, I say on my own, but you know, therapy and talking to my husband and, you know, talking to people and writing a book about it and being open about it. You know, like there's many outlets that helped me along the way. Yeah, that was like so there was I think there was a level of like concern there for sure, but nothing like yeah, I've never had the opportunity to really just like openly chat about it with them.

Aimee:

Yeah, I think that's pretty common from what I've witnessed as well is that family members will often watch very closely but stay silent. Yeah, yeah. And,, I can't really pass judgment on that. I can't really say that I would necessarily do it differently. It's, it's such a, family dynamics are complex enough. It's so complicated. When there's nothing going on,

Robyn:

you know? Right? I know.

Aimee:

I know. So it's, yeah. I am really, I'm really glad to hear though that they didn't, you know, that the, the sibling dynamic wasn't such that they aggressively fed into the problem,? Or, or

Robyn:

by no means No. That's wonderful. It was a totally. self fabricated with a little extra sprinkling of comments made by people in the gym. And, and that's it. Like I have, I've always held very high standards for myself. I, I think, but it's so funny, you know, I talked to my sister and she has the same feeling towards me. Like, I compare myself to you when it comes to like business and success and how outgoing you are and socially you are and things like that. So there's Always going to be something right. And, and that was just my personal, my own personal thing. And so it took me a long time and through. First taking a step back from CrossFit and not to say that CrossFit is going to do that to everybody like that was just my own personal experience, but I did take had to take a big step back from CrossFit, start training and working out a different way. I'm starting to listen to my own body more starting to focus on things that brought me more joy like building my business and helping other women and I think also to a big part of my. healing process in that sense was working with the women that I'm working now. It's the women who really just want to have a better life and be more energized and not worry about the number on the scale, but really just worry about like, okay, can they play with their kids? Can they go for bike rides and hikes without getting too out of breath? Like, and so when you have that put in your face to give you some perspective. Then it's like, okay, yeah, like I am so much happier when I'm 20 pounds heavier, you know, yeah,

Aimee:

yeah,

Robyn:

yeah.

Aimee:

Was there a moment for you where you were like, I'm done, I can't do this anymore? Or was it a slow realization? How did you go from being in that place where you were over training and under eating, really being You know, having that external locus of control really reclaiming and finding your center and your values and what was going to be good for you long term.

Robyn:

Yeah, there's two. Moments that really stick out to me as huge players in this and whether or not they were it I don't know, but definitely big players. One of them was. so I don't know anybody who's listening who knows CrossFit and understands CrossFit, there's this thing called the CrossFit Open that happens at the beginning of every year, you might be familiar with it. And so I was doing the CrossFit Open and really trying to make it to that next stage of competition, right? and I, this was like kind of the peak of, of where I was the most. strung out because my training was at its peak. My eating was at its lowest because you want to be pretty light when you're going into the open. And so I, like my, looking back, my cortisol levels must've been fucking through the roof. So I was doing a workout and I was getting really frustrated at my performance. During the workout, like super frustrated. And my dad happened to be there watching, he came and visited that weekend and he was participating in the open for fun as well. Like he was, we, the family at that point was all on board and he saw me getting frustrated and I would like my face was just you could see the frustration, but remember I was also still a coach. So people were watching me, right? Like people would watch the coaches do these workouts and then, after the workout was done, I was like kind of pissed and my dad pulled me aside after, and he was like, what are you doing? He's like, you're, you're a leader here. Like, don't, don't show that amount of frustration and negativity. You need to show these people, you need to be the leader. You need to be positive. You need to stay positive. You need to show them that it's okay for it to not be perfect. and he was the first one to pull me aside after that performance. And say, like, get it together, basically.

Aimee:

Yeah.

Robyn:

So, that was one where I was like, Oh, shit. Like, yeah. You're, totally right. I mean, in the moment, I was like, Fuck off, dad. But, later, I was like, oh yeah, he's totally right. And then, not that long after, I went on vacation, by myself. I did a two week, solo Europe trip. And that gave me just like the physical space I needed, the mental space I needed, like just total disconnection. I always say, if you need to get some perspective, like go travel somewhere, just like get, just leave your current life and take a look at it from like a 3000 foot view, kind of literally and figuratively speaking, when you're in the air and you're looking down, like it puts things into perspective. So I think coming back from that, I was like, wow, there's just. So much more going on here and so much more to life than me trying to be, the best in business, the best in CrossFit, beating my brother and sister, looking a certain way, like all these things. So those were two big moments for me. Having that support system and really real talk with my dad and then getting some, getting some distance from it as well.

Aimee:

So then you, you've also talked about taking self care too far is a natural, and I think you kind of see that play out just in what you've already shared about how you went from being a competitive swimmer in your youth to being like enough of this. I'm good. I'm a teenager. Damn it. I'm gonna have some fun and then going way over the other end right into college and then trying to bring it back in but then getting sucked back into that sort of competitive athlete mode and you transition out again with the perspective of an adult. Um, but it sounds https: otter. ai For you.

Robyn:

Yeah, I think I mean, you're already kind of like starting to see that pattern that I think a lot of women experience. I always say every action has an equal and opposite reaction. So if you go very deep into one thing, there's a chance that you're going to rebel in the opposite direction equally as aggressively. We see this happen with, a lot of young women who, and this is kind of where the notion of there's, yeah, self care can go too far. what I mean by that is, Any woman, I say young women because it's really prevalent in young women, but like, really could be anybody. if you dive deep into that wellness culture, clean eating, which could very well end up being orthorexia, right, at some point. Yeah, right. which is one version of being unhealthy and unhappy. okay, you start to pull yourself out of that. But then what happens you see this anti diet, like diet starts tomorrow culture, which is, which is the answer to wellness culture, right? So there's these two kind of ways of thinking and living that we're seeing on social media and online and it's obviously seeping into these women's and men's, let's be real here, everybody, um, lives where, okay, what is the answer to clean eating and, pure ingredients and, well, gosh, like, all of this nonsense that comes with, wellness and clean eating culture. It is skipping days at the gym because you don't feel like going and you're listening to your body. It is ordering in food on maybe unnecessarily because you had a long day at work and you need to like just order in and you don't feel like cooking something. It's, you know, it's, it's self care taken too far. your kind of going into that, like, I want to find balance, but you've totally crossed over balance and now you're going into the other end of the spectrum of unhealthy and happy, right? And this also happens with, um, also happens with, recovering dieters, right? In the exact same sense. They go from a place of restrict, restrict, restrict. They rebound from that. And then they go to a place of overeat, overeat, overeat, right? And they skip that middle ground. And so when I say like self care goes too far, it is like, okay, yeah. Like you gotta start to understand that self care isn't skipping the gym because you had a hard day. It's not ordering a pizza because you need to give yourself a break. It is maybe that every once in a while after you've had 80 percent of your days, being consistent on and quote unquote on track. And I don't love that term, but here we are. And for me, there was a, yes, there was a period of that for sure, because. You know, of course, I was trying to rebel against, you know, my dad had that talk, I went to, um, I went to Europe for two weeks, ate whatever I want when I was on vacation, came back. And that kind of seeped into my normal life, my regular life. So after I got that perspective and I was like, okay, I'm going to start to get it together and not be so hard on myself and all that stuff. It turned into, I'm going to eat whatever I want. I'm going to stop tracking my food. I'm going to, you know, just live my life. And yeah, and I gained weight back. And I started to be the same weight where I was when I was partying in my Late teens and early 20s. and so it, yeah, it took me, gosh, and this, I think this is just a great lesson for everybody. Like, holy smokes, if you take a look at when I started to try and find what my happiest and healthiest body would look like 10 years ago, I would say I probably just started to find that balance, maybe. Maybe five, four years ago, So it, it takes a long, it takes a while, right? And you have to go through those phases, uh, and you have to sometimes learn the hard way, unfortunately.

Aimee:

Yeah, absolutely. this isn't, yeah, this isn't something that can be discovered and resolved in a 90 day program. Oh my God,

Robyn:

no, no, absolutely

Aimee:

not. It is, years. It is. Years. And I really, I really do appreciate too that you started this conversation off by saying you're still in the process of understanding and developing and solidifying those healthy boundaries. Yeah, I think that there are expectations that at some point, we will be healed. Right. And I'm air quoting here, Healing being like, end of journey, walk out, all done, finito, it's history. Our brains don't work like that. No. And life doesn't work like that. And life doesn't work like that. When we develop a coping skill, whether it's adaptive or maladaptive, it, it's, it's in there. And one of the things that I've personally experienced and also witnessed is that you can have, like, you can have your shit together for a long time And then something happens. Maybe it's you're transitioning a parent to hospice. Maybe it's you've just had a newborn, they aren't sleeping, they're struggling with eating, you're not sleeping, life has gone cuckoo, and your stress level is higher than it's ever been in your adulthood. There are times when life is crazy. Enough that even if you haven't had a drink of alcohol, binge eaten, what have you, for a decade or more, suddenly you're there again and you're staring down this barrel of something that you thought you were over. Right. Yep. You got it here. And I mean, consistently across the board, everybody's responses. Oh, shit. How did I end up here? I thought I was done with this. Right.

Robyn:

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I, I mean, I don't have the answer, but I have a answer that has helped me a lot. And it's, it's so, it's so simple, obviously not, not easy, but it's like. If you can, you can somehow get yourself to a place of expecting it to happen, right? Like it's going to happen, then you can start to prepare yourself. Because I think those people who are in that mindset of, okay, I'm done.

Aimee:

They get

Robyn:

totally blindsided, slapped across the face with zero preparedness. And there's no, um, or very little like strength to get them through that. I always, I talk to my clients a lot about visualization and it's like, I think it's such a powerful thing. It can kind of seem like, Ooh, like, okay. Visualization. What are you talking about? But I mean, go to any, I think of, um, Olympic athletes, weightlifters. Okay. Okay. And it's, and it's like, there are studies on it. that show the effectiveness of it. Okay. So it's like, there's this weightlifter, they have three lifts to do. Okay. 10 seconds to go make that one left. And if they fail, they fail. That's it. They have no, like they have in that moment of 10 seconds or whatever, however much, I can't even remember how long it's on the clock, but they have to wait. Yeah. X amount of time to do their second lift. And so what goes into that is like, they're sitting there and you'll see them. If you ever watch weightlifting, they'll be sitting backstage or on the, on the chair there. And there'll be like closing their eyes. They'll be looking, they'll be visualizing. They have to see and feel out in their mind how that lift is going to go. And so I try and talk to that, talk about this to my clients where it's like, Hey, start to visualize what your weekend is going to look like when you're out and about and going to these events and you're on vacation, start to visualize what it look, what it would look like if you were derailed, start to visualize what it would look like if you were to go to an event and they had totally different array of food than you expected to be there. What are you going to do? And even just that moment of sitting in that space where you're starting to think about what are the potential realities, And so for me, because my next potential reality is what a one that you were saying, we could have a newborn baby in the next year,, and for me, it's that excites me, like really excites me where it's like, Oh, I'm so excited to have a new obstacle that I can start to figure out. Like it's going to take new planning and new skills, and it's going to develop me as a human being and as a mother and as a person. and I'm going to be able to bring a new conversation to the next podcast that I'm on about how to overcome things. But the only reason that I'm able to look at that with from a place of like pure excitement and looking forward to it is because I've been expecting it like I know it's coming. And so, yeah, and it might, again it's not it may not be the answer but it's helped me a ton where it's like, like, Shit will always hit the fan in life.

Aimee:

Just

Robyn:

be

Aimee:

prepared. Exactly. We conveniently forget that life is inherently chaotic.

Robyn:

Exactly. And it can be something as micro as oh, you're on a weight loss journey and you go to your friend's like backyard barbecue and they say that there's going to be healthy food but you get there and there's like chips and stuff. Hey, cool. Some prepare for that to something as macro as yeah, having a newborn and your schedule gets totally like chaotic and out of whack and nothing you could ever expect, right? These instances pop up in your day and life. All the time, but we think for some reason that it's all just going to be like, Oh, okay. I've, spent a couple of weeks doing the work. I'm good. You know, like everything's going to be smooth sailing from now on. And it's not, unfortunately.

Aimee:

Yeah, exactly. It's not definitely, definitely helpful to have backup plans, right? You have your best laid plan. Okay. This is what I'm planning for. And then, okay, well, that doesn't work out. Like, what's my plan B? What's my backup? I mean, small case in point, I'm in Spain and the week before Easter is like a big fricking deal. Everything, you know, things are intermittently open or shut down. It's our first Easter here. I don't really know what's going to be open when or not. And I did really well, but didn't realize that Easter Monday. is a thing. The day after Easter. Yeah. Everything is shut down. Yeah. So, I buy just enough to get through the weekend anticipating everything's going to be shut down through the weekend. I plan on my meal plan for this week. I'm all set on my, all right, Monday morning. I'm going to go, I'm going to get all my produce. No, Aimee, you're not. Life has other plans for you, yeah. It's Easter Monday, don't you know? I don't, I don't know what that means. I mean, because Spain is, Spain observes religious holidays, but is by and large not religious. Yeah. I don't know what. Originally was supposed to happen on Easter Monday, but everything being shut down. And so I'm like, well, shit, where am I going to get my protein? Where am I going to get my produce? I don't, I don't know. I, we're going to have to figure this out. And I managed to cobble together what I needed between what we had, the scraps that I had left over and the few things that were open, but my meal plan this week, It's, it's not, it's not going to happen, right? It's, it's, it started off differently. I now have different food in the fridge based on availability. I'm going to roll with it. And we can't, we can't be too heavily attached to the initial plan.

Robyn:

Yes. Could not have said it better myself because that is probably the. And I think that's the biggest cause of self sabotage that I see is, yeah, the original plan not going as planned and you see that as an excuse to, all right, this isn't going to work. Screw it. Yeah. This isn't going to work. Screw it. Right. I think like my goal, my biggest goal is to help build like a level of resilience in our clients. And I think that's the biggest thing that we're trying to do is. Is yeah, start to build that resilience, start to build that creative way of thinking and thinking on the fly and thinking on your feet. especially because we're working with so many busy women too. It's like the chances of things going wrong are not just like, you know, like maybe it's probably right. Yeah, expect it to exactly. Expect it to. Yeah, I think that's a really good conversation. I haven't really dove into that a lot with with like on any podcast or anything like that. But I think that's like such an important message is yeah, just continue to expect things to go not wrong, because it's not wrong, but expect them to go differently than you had initially planned. And if you can wrap your head around that then you're not going to get into that screw it mo nearly as often of ordering and take out when things didn't go your way. Exactly.

Aimee:

It's going to be, Oh, here it is. Here's my opportunity to practice the backup plan. Here's my opportunity to be resilient. Here's my opportunity to be creative. Exactly.

Robyn:

I've seen it as, and I even wrote this. I think it's in my book like I wrote this in my book where it's like every challenge is an opportunity and you need to start looking at these challenges as opportunities like if you really care about your health, then you should also care about your self development, like your personal development, and in all areas, like we just talked about resilience, creativity, thinking on the fly, like whatever it is, and, and those only come with challenges, right? Like they literally only present themselves as an opportunity to get stronger, like through challenges. And so what are you doing trying to avoid challenges? Oh, you want to become a better person, but you're also like scared of, of screwing up when a challenge present itself. It's like, okay, like there's a, there's a total disconnect there. Right. Yeah.

Aimee:

Yeah. on a, almost a side tangent that's somewhat related, I see too, in this, in the health and wellness field with people are in the position we are, where they are coaches, they're fitness professionals they're health professionals at one more certification, one more degree in order to be ready to help people, right? Like to learn more, to be ready. Oh, girl, you need to get out in the field and you need to start talking to people so that you learn what you don't know that you need to know, because you can't learn everything and then get started. Life teaches you the experience that you need to be an amazing practitioner. Yes. It doesn't come from a textbook. It doesn't come from a course. It doesn't come from some, like, guru sage on the stage who's presenting all the answers and will teach you everything you need to know about functional what have you.

Robyn:

Well, I'll even, I'll even go a step further than that and say, the more you learn and the more you know is probably going to turn you into a worse coach. Yes. Thank you. Because what are you going to do? You're going to try and spew out all the things that you know, like, and I see this happen with new coaches all the time. I worked with one and oh my God, he drove me nuts where it was like, he was so knowledgeable. And, and, and then he would get up 30 people who were there to learn the basics. And he would spew out all this information. and it was like, okay, great. We get it, dude. Like, you know what you're talking about, but like, how, how are you going to translate that higher level knowledge that you have into something applicable and tangible for Sally that just walked in and doesn't know how to pick up a weight safely. Right. And so, and the best coaches are the ones who are able to translate that. The, the absolute best coaches are the ones who are able to get the clients to do the things. Right. And. And if your clients are not doing the things, they might not understand what you're asking them to do. And if they don't understand what you're asking them to do, you need to look at the way that you're communicating it. And I find that the coaches who spend the most time learning and learning and learning before they actually practice are the ones who don't know how to communicate it best. They don't know how to communicate it effectively. They're too in their head. They're too smart. So there's actually a chance of it doing you a disservice. Like it's doing the opposite of what you actually want it to do. Like I was listening to, I had a Q and a with Sam Miller. If he's a sofa and he's so smart, he has a business called the metabolism school, and you can follow him on Instagram. And we had a great Q and a with him yesterday. And. And while we were listening to him, we were talking about everything from gut health to hormones, to PCOS, to metabolic restoration and adaptation and everything like these higher level things that yes, a lot of coaches need to understand if there's working with clients one on one. And as he's talking about it, I get into my own head for sure, where I'm like, Oh, I need to learn more about that. And I need to learn more about that. And you need to refresh on this. And what course can I take next? And da, da, da, And I mean, until probably 9pm last night, I need to snap myself out of it, where it's like, no, I have the things that I need, I can always take an extra course later if I want to,

Aimee:

but like,

Robyn:

no, like, just, you don't need an extra number or letter behind your name, it's really, like, get, get the basics, go practice. And then use that to figure out what you want to do next.

Aimee:

Right, right.

Robyn:

Yeah.

Aimee:

I think it's a way that those of us in the field get caught in, it's another form of perfection, right? If I just know enough, then I'll be good enough that I can essentially overcome my own insecurities. that's not what makes you good enough. I mean, there are a lot of confident idiots out there with huge Instagram followings who don't know shit. Okay, so confidence isn't, like, that's not necessarily the answer.

Robyn:

Confident idiots, that's, that's the majority of coaches online these days, like, and this is Oh my god. Talk about Talking about trying to put like, okay, I feel myself getting to this point of like the same screw it point that I got to like my physical body composition, I am like on the verge of getting there with like social media and online and all that bullshit. Okay. Like I am so over it. I'm so over the day in day out trying to, trying to play with these. Yeah, confident idiots on social media who have massive followings. And so what, like, for me, like, I, I see that and, I get my head. I'm like, Okay, I need to create this content. I need to create that. And I'm going to do something like that. And I'm going to put that because obviously that's what people want to see because they have a big following and I need more followers and I need more clients and I want more clients and da, da, da, da. So then I put myself

Aimee:

too.

Robyn:

Yeah. Right. And then you start creating this content, but you don't like creating it. So you feel resistance and then you post it and you're not getting the likes that you want. So you're like, like, what the hell is, why is this even like worth it? And it's just this nasty cycle and hashtag my life. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Like I, and I'm over it. I'm so over it. I've been on the online coaching, like strictly online coaching for seven years now, or maybe not even seven years. We started in person. So I should say maybe like four, four years. And, I'm like done. I'm like, I'm so fricking done. Like I am ready to just start saying what I want to say. And I started posting like I did my first video on Instagram the other day where it's like here's day one of me just like talking about the things that I want to talk about because I don't know if you do this but like the deadly like. doomscrolling of like trying to get inspiration for content. Done. Done with that. Like, yeah, it's, it's everybody and their cousin's dog walker is a nutrition coach these

Aimee:

days. I know. I know. It's actually why I started this podcast was because I can't. I can't stand social media. I can't stand that game. I can't stand the, you know, give 30 percent of your income to Zuckerberg for ad space so that it's seen because you can't even get seen because the space is crowded. Right. And, and the churn out like just churn out the more vomit for people to consume And it takes me away from what I want to be doing. And then, you know, between that pressure and then all of the social pressure during the pandemic to only speak and think and behave in one way that was acceptable. And I just, you know, I reached my breaking point and I'm like, fuck social, fuck the algorithm, fuck like. Being politically correct, because now, now there is no way to be politically correct, because everything you say, somebody will take offense to and try and cancel you. So I'm gonna start of a podcast where I say whatever the fuck I want, because Here we are, because it doesn't matter anymore. It doesn't matter. But the

Robyn:

the other amazing thing about this, this medium, the medium of a podcast, is we have an hour. To add context to the conversation. We have an hour to add nuance and gray areas and explain our, ways of thinking where, you know, every time I pick up a phone to record myself saying something, I immediately see that clock ticking and say, Oh my God, I only have a minute to get out what I want to say. And if I don't say it all in the right way, then I start, you know, and, and then you record it. And then I prevent myself from actually posting it because I'm like, okay. Maybe I didn't address that, or maybe I said something wrong here. Maybe I need to explain that more. Maybe somebody is going to take offense to this particular word that I said there, like whatever it is. So the, the inherent nature of Instagram is to capture and retain attention very, very, very quickly. And I'm just inherently not that type of person. And, I like, I don't do this intentionally, obviously, but I sometimes don't give off a very good first impression when I walk into a room, it's just something I've been told. It's, and it's, and I've been working on it for years and years and years. But even when I started coaching at a gym, Like a long time ago, I was a member at the gym before, before I was a coach. And then when I became a coach, I obviously started like talking more and like, coaching and people would come up to me and they're like, Oh my God, I thought you were so like intimidating when you were just a member here. And I'm like, what? It's like, what are you talking about? And, and then I, since then I've heard, you know, at least a good handful of people say like, I thought you were so intimidating before I got to know you. And I'm like, well, like that. Okay. Okay. That is exactly why I have a hard time on social media because social media is just first impressions,

Aimee:

right?

Robyn:

You have an instant to get somebody's attention. And if they don't like you in the first second, then, You know, tough luck. And so, but what's nice about it, what does benefit me is once they do follow me, like I have a great community of dedicated followers, which is amazing. And I have a great Facebook community, but for some reason, I have a hard time on, on the Instagram and like TikTok and stuff like that, where I feel like what I'm putting out there is not really just my true self because my true self is I like to talk a lot. I like to add context. I like to chat and, and make sure that you, the podcast host, or you, the listener, are really truly understanding my intentions and what I'm trying to say and The meaning behind it and all that stuff. And I just don't think there's an opportunity to do that really on Instagram. And yeah, it's, which is, which is the reason why I'm trying to go more like in person and create partnerships and do live events and stuff like that, because then I have that chance to really show who I am in front of you, you know?

Aimee:

Yeah, exactly. I think too, I mean, that's That is appropriate because I, I believe that there are many people who have essentially binged too much on the candy that is Instagram. They have a stomach ache and they want a nourishing meal.

Robyn:

Do a little golf clap for that one. They're like, this doesn't feel so good anymore.

Aimee:

Yeah, right. Yeah. Funny show adolescent girls are really fucked up because of all this. Maybe we should try something else.

Robyn:

Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah, exactly. You know, this is so like, unrelated but sort of related. I'm so excited for like, Okay, the new generation of children being born is going to be so interesting because they are the children of the, millennials who are getting sick of social media.

Aimee:

Yeah.

Robyn:

So it's going to be interesting to see how they're raised. I mean, all of my friends are trying to raise their kids with, no social media, only get phones when you're a certain age, like, because that's how we were grown up and we also see what's happening. So I'm so. Curious to see, like, how, this new generation, grows up. I mean, obviously you put them in school and then, like, they're probably just get corrupt anyways because all their friends are doing it and all this stuff, but

Aimee:

Perhaps not that generation. I will say, um, so I have a son. He's 10. Okay. And he's been in Montessori since the beginning.

Robyn:

Amazing.

Aimee:

Being in Montessori in one of the major tech cities in the United States, is different. In a Montessori school. Hey, yeah. They're both the same Montessori, for those of you who know Montessori, they're both, the original Montessori method, not the American Montessori International, but the, like, the original O. G. Maria or Bust Montessori method. And so in, in the United States, you know, no screens in the classroom. Um, it was a screen free school. However, what I'm seeing here in Europe is I swear to you, every two or three months, there is a panel, some kind of expert, some kind of like, let's gather the parents into the auditorium and remind them that screen time for children is detrimental to their physical and mental health. It is drilled in over and over and over again. And the school has a very strict, very overt, clear policy that they do not believe any child can Should be having a cell phone if they are under the age of 16. Yeah. Certainly not any exposure to social media at all. And that their iPad time, their screen time should be severely limited to, I don't even know it. It's so low and we've not been able to bring it within their standards. But it's. I won't even make up a number because I, I can't even think off the top of my head. Like a couple hours a week

Robyn:

type

Aimee:

thing. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. That is a level that we will aim to bit by bit. But, and I, I love it. I don't know to what degree the parents are actually adhering to this. but certainly in, in a European culture, there is not the There isn't the societal pressure to put cell phones in children's hands at a young age because there is more of an expectation that the community will support the child to some degree, that the other adults in the neighborhood aren't out to get you and your children, they're not going to kidnap or murder child. Yeah. And that. That children are taken care of, that's still that's still a prevailing belief here. And so I think there isn't as much of a need or a perceived need, right? And children also are not as coddled here as they are in the United States. they are free roaming. They start going, you know, out into the park to play by themselves when they're, you know, seven years old Yeah, and so they have more autonomy, more street smarts because they're exposed to that. Yeah, life experience that we as parents, we are not allowed to give our Children.

Robyn:

Yeah. Right. It's crazy. I think they need that. They need, they need to learn, they need to be in front of human real life people to start to understand, read body language, read, communicate, because that's where you get, like, that's where ultimately you build your own safety is the ability to, understand when someone's sketchy or when someone's not and differentiate between somebody who's giving you a bad vibe and versus somebody who's not when you're at the park playing alone you do not get that on social media when people are all putting on a bit on social media right like you don't you can't pick that up like there's no freaking way so just

Aimee:

as yeah just as we who are looking to find that middle balance with our health to Encounter those challenges to learn and grow that result. Oh, right. So to do our children need to fall on the playground, tumble off the jungle gym, scrape and do and learn that they are resilient and can survive the small things. When they're young. So that way when they're teenagers and their hormones are going completely off the wall and they're impulsive, they're impulsive as they were when they're toddlers, but now more apt to do crazy ass shit, like driving and heroin that they've got, they've got some kind of like exposure to street smarts, but otherwise it's just like. Yeah, it's the consequences are much more dire.

Robyn:

Yes. Oh, yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's hilarious. And I could not agree more. I love that conversation. And obviously, I don't have I don't have the parenting experience to bring to the table there. But I will and we're ready for it. I'm excited.

Aimee:

Yeah, I'm excited for you too. It's definitely a wild ride. You want to wrap up shortly, but I do not want to leave this conversation Without you sharing some of your tips and experiences with developing a sense of consistency and a sense of that middle ground, with. ADHD.

Robyn:

Oh my god. Well this is, yeah, this is like when I said earlier on that this is something I'm learning when it comes to, like still in the middle of, when it comes to, like abandoning perfection, this is, I am in the thick of this one. So, because I was only diagnosed with ADHD a year ago. Right, obviously like, yeah. So, I was diagnosed with ADHD. Well, I mean, obviously I've had it. You don't really know what it is or I didn't even really understand it or what was going on in my brain or where my anxiety was stemming from, I was seeing my therapist very regularly and went to a psychiatrist and all that stuff. And they finally diagnosed me and, and all this stuff. And, and I think that. What was it? What was your question?

Aimee:

Speaking of ADHD.

Robyn:

Yeah, speaking of ADHD, what was the question about, about ADHD?

Aimee:

Just strategies that you use to maintain that consistency with the habits. Strategies. Okay, yeah.

Robyn:

Consistency. That was the word. I was like, what is the word? Consistency. So, we talked a lot about preparedness and planning. I think literally the only way that I've been able to stay consistent with my workouts, my eating, or whatever, is when I know what I'm going to be doing, right? and the first time I realized this, way before I was even diagnosed with ADHD, but I had this tendency of going into the gym without a plan, and I would do, Which some people can do. Some people who do are very, neurotypical, can do. Okay? they can go into a gym and they can be like, okay, I'm gonna do this, this, and this, and they go, I, without a plan, would go into a gym, and I would,, stare at the equipment, And then I would go over there and do like 30 seconds on something, and then I would go over there and do another thing, and then I would go over there and do another set, and then I would go over there and do another set, and then I would leave the gym feeling very scatterbrained and unaccomplished. I'd be like, oh, I just spent an hour in the gym, but what the heck did I do? There was no intention, there was no planning, there was no structure. And so once I realized that what I needed was structure in the gym, I would then write out on a piece of paper, I would go to my like coach or like somebody, create a plan, create a program, go into the gym and go through the program and what was written in order and I would feel that I would leave that gym feeling Way better. I'd be like, Oh, I had to do the best workout because I followed the plan. But if you put that piece of paper, the program that I did versus if I wrote down all the scattered random things that I did, the amount of work is probably the same, right? The amount of like output probably done in those two workouts were the same, but like the feeling after that I got of accomplishing something that was planned out ahead of time was like a dopamine hit to me. And obviously people, with ADHD, they need those dopamine hits.

Aimee:

In

Robyn:

order to keep them engaged and keep them acting on things that they want to be acting on, right? Like, nobody with ADHD is going to do anything that doesn't give them, like, a shot of dopamine. So I recognize that, yeah. I imagine

Aimee:

that would help with the anxiety because you have a plan, you know what to do, you do it, and say, I did

Robyn:

it. Exactly. And I started realizing for me that my dopamine hits were coming from checking things off. And to this day, I love creating a to do list and checking those things off the to do list. Like when I can cross that off, I'm like, shit, I feel good. Yeah. So So then I, so I realized that and then I started to bring that over slowly into like my eating and I mean, a huge trait that women with ADHD have is their meals are so unorganized, they'll go, go to the kitchen and grab a bite of this and they'll go and they'll have a spoon of peanut butter and they'll call that a meal. And, they're their brain can't comprehend how to plan out and structure a wholesome, nutritious meal. And I was very, very similar, I still have obviously tendencies of just going into the kitchen and grabbing something, without even like planning it. and so in the kitchen, I would do similar to kind of what you do now, just kind of menu plan. I don't really meal plan necessarily. Like I don't really like spending hours in the kitchen. I really don't like cooking. So I don't really spend that time making a bunch of amazing meals, but I do spend the time thinking about what I'm going to eat. And then I just make sure that my fridge is stocked with those things, right? So if like, I have to take regular inventory of what's in my fridge, because if something is not there, then that's where my brain will go to, Oh, I'll just have something else. And then if I have something else and I feel like I'm off track and I no longer check that thing off the to do list, so my, so the dopamine hit is no longer there. Whereas if I eat what was planned ahead of time, then I get that dopamine hit and I feel really good about it and I can keep going. So I think, for me, I started to really understand and recognize like, where my dopamine hits came from, what triggered them, what took them away, like what, you know, how, what made me feel good, basically. And then I would just start to implement little like strategy systems, like planning ahead of time, things like here and there. And, and that's just really helped me become, uh, become consistent. It's so interesting that, I had all of those things in place well before I was even diagnosed with ADHD, I just thought it was who I was, like, I didn't even have a name for it, dopamine hits, whatever, like, it was just kind of how I operated. But, obviously when you get diagnosed with it, you're like, holy shit, that makes sense. Like, you're like, wow, like, that my whole life is explained, like, that's really cool. So. That's been really helpful for me, and being on medication that helps, like I am very, I'm a huge advocate for modern medicine, huge advocate for somebody, not being ashamed or afraid to get help via, medication. If it's the right thing for you, it's totally changed my life. I, and now this is for me personally too, I am on anxiety medication, not on ADHD medication. I'm thinking of going back on it, but I have ADHD induced anxiety. So I find that like women who, a lot of women who have ADHD will also have anxiety. Like it's very common for them to go together. and it can go either way, where I think some women will have, um, get kind of ADHD tendencies and symptoms because they're feeling anxious, and then other women will get anxiety because of their ADHD. And so I have the latter, where if I find that if I can just, control my anxiety, then I can manage the ADHD symptoms way better on my own. So that's why I chose to go on anxiety medication. and I find that really just helps me regulate my thinking and everything like that. I was on ADHD medication and I didn't experiment with a ton. There's so many, right? Like there's so, so many, and I know it takes a while to find the one that's right for you. And so I did it for a bit, but I just found that if, as long as I went back on, cause I was off my anxiety medication and I was totally medication free for about a year and it was the toughest year of my life, and it took me like a while to not just pun intended, swallow the pill of the fact that I needed to be back on it. But also even just putting the two together where it's like, holy shit, like I need to be back on it. And I totally didn't even realize. So I went back on my anxiety medication. As soon as I went back on, I was like, okay, like I can manage this, you know? And so I just, I'm a huge advocate for that. And I'm making sure that you find what's going to work for you.

Aimee:

Yeah. Yeah. Finding the right medication. Like if the right medication is out there for you, finding it, such a game changer for people.

Robyn:

It's life changing. It's 100 percent life changing. And, this can be a total other podcast episode, but, like, just being an advocate for your own health is something, probably, like, the thing I am most passionate about. I'm, me and a woman here in Kingston, where I live, we're gonna start a non profit organization for women to, Be able to connect easily with, health professionals and specific fields, so they can take their health into their own hands and I'm like, this is a whole like side project that we're going to do and I'm very, very, very excited about it. But the reason I bring this up is because, I have an old white man of a doctor. Okay. And every time I go to him, I have to, push for things. And, what were we oh yeah, the last time I chatted with him, I told I was like, I'm gonna take my IUD out, he was asking me about, cause it's the expiration's coming up, and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna take it out, my husband and I want to start trying for kids, and he's like, you're on sertraline. And I'm like, yeah, I'm on sertraline. And he's like, well, you need to get off of it. And I'm like, no, I don't. And he's like, yeah, you need to get off of it if you're going to be pregnant. You can't be on anxiety medication. And I'm like, yes, I can. and like, I've done my research. my sister in law is a doctor. Like, I know that your old white man way of thinking is not up to date. And, and I know that the small risk of me being on 50 milligrams, which is a small dosage of sertraline while being pregnant, totally out, like the benefits of that totally outweighs the potential mental health crisis that I could go through while being pregnant off medication. Right. You know, so I would, I will rather take that risk because I do not want to go through like potent, like maybe I still will go through postpartum depression, but it might not be as severe as it would be as if I were off of it, you know? So I had to like really like put my foot down with him and say no, I'm going to stay on it. And he was like, oh, okay, that's fine. And I was like, yeah, I just think. Bro, like,

Aimee:

he just said, no, you can't. And then when you pushed back, he was like, okay. Yep. Yep.

Robyn:

What? Yep. And he does, he's done this really good. And I, and I know other women who experienced the same thing with like their, their doctors, right. Where it's like, they'll say one thing and you, and, but. But a lot of women won't push back. Right? And I'm so fearful of that, where they won't push back and they won't, they'll, they'll go over, they'll follow what, exactly what their doctor says, and I get it. Don't get, like, I want to be very clear where it's like, there is zero judgment, obviously, because your doctor is a figure that you're supposed to trust, and you're supposed to, so I get it. But I just think like with the availability of information these days and the amount of resources that are out there, you can take your health into your own hands. You can talk to multiple people. You can get different opinions. You can, and the only person that knows your body best is you. And, and so if you know that something's right for you, I think it's necessary for you to like put your foot down and say, no, I know this about myself. I need to do this for me. And there's, they're probably going to like, You know, if you do it, they'll probably give you, be like, okay, you're like, yeah, fine. And that's exactly what they did. He's like, yeah, okay.

Aimee:

Okay, great. So it wasn't even like a rigidly, strongly held opinion of himself. It was probably just like, you know,

Robyn:

This is what I think.

Aimee:

This is

Robyn:

what

Aimee:

I read in a conference

Robyn:

30

Aimee:

years ago.

Robyn:

This is what I read in my textbook while I was in school, you know, back in the 1950s. And so, you know, I'm just going to stick by the book. Yeah. And, I

Aimee:

mean, I think, and this is when, you know, in, in you're in Canada, I know that they don't have quite the, uh, pharmaceutical commercial Prush. Yeah. In Canada that they have in the States, but, for those of you who are American and are listening, when they say in the medication commercials, have a conversation with your doctor, that means you can ask questions,

Robyn:

right?

Aimee:

If your doctor says something to you that has you feeling like, I don't think that's correct for me, ask them why they think that way. What, why, where is their reasoning coming from? Because they may not know information that you know, Which is, you know, in your instance, I, it is not worth it to me to go through a mental health crisis while pregnant if I go off this medication. When my sister in law, who's a physician and everything that I've seen, you know, doing my Google research, which admittedly is not a medical degree. Yeah. Yes. Let's be clear. Yeah. Indicates that this isn't, this isn't a all or nothing situation, right? This isn't an absolute hard no.

Robyn:

Exactly. There are grey, there are grey areas as there are grey areas to a lot of health. Right. And, um, and yeah, I think, uh, so what you said there is important to like health care in Canada is so different than health care in the States. And I mean, there's so many getting a family doctor in most cities in Canada right now is next to impossible. Right. So there are So there are thousands and thousands and thousands of people who don't have a physician that they can trust or they can go to to ask questions. So then what happens, that's when they go on TikTok and Google and they start researching for themselves. And I, and yes, while it is not a 100%, it's not a medical degree by any chance, but people have gotten really good at it. And they've started to figure out who like people that they can go to just ask questions to start putting, putting together the pieces for themselves. Because that's. Quite literally the only option that they have, unfortunately, they don't have that trusted resource. They don't have that trusted figure that they can go to. And so I am very lucky that I do have a family doctor and that I can go to, but at the same time, I know that he's, you know, he questioned me when I wanted to go on ADHD. He told me I didn't have ADHD. He told me, you know, all these things and I'm like, you don't fucking know me from a hole in the wall. Like, you know, like I, and, and so, yeah, it's different. It's totally. Kind of bogus sometimes, but anyways, that's a whole other conversation. I think we can save for a rainy day.

Aimee:

Yeah, the state of health care in North America is like, let's not even go there.

Robyn:

Yeah.

Aimee:

Robyn, it has been such a delight to get to spend this time with you. I'm so glad that we, that we did. So if people want to find you, can they still follow you on social? Yes,

Robyn:

absolutely. I'm not going anywhere on social media. I'm just gonna, I'm all I'm gonna do is just switch the way that I kind of. Uh, approach it, I guess. So, um, Robyn with a Y, Robyn Shaw Jarvis, is my, personal slash My health like coaching account on Instagram, so you can totally follow me on Instagram. but my website where everything lives is bod z.com, so B-O-D-Z-Z II for Americans, um, B-O-D-Z-I i.com. And then once you're there, like you can click anywhere and find me on all the platforms and stuff like that. So that's probably the easiest place to go.

Aimee:

Awesome. And for those who want to read your book, what is the book? And we're yes,

Robyn:

absolutely. Hustle but healthy, the five pillars of sustainable wellness and weight loss for busy women. So yeah, I just searched hustle but healthy on Amazon or Barnes and Noble, and you can get a copy of it there. And that honestly is the best place to start, right? Like it is, my history of coaching try and summed up in a few hundred pages and it's, Talks a lot about what we did today, but it kind of just goes over my whole, like, belief and philosophy on how to approach, health and women's wellness and even, weight loss and stuff like that. So,

Aimee:

yeah. Excellent. All right. I, I'd love to have you back to talk about that book in an episode, and go over those five pillars with you. That would be fantastic.

Robyn:

Amazing. Let's do it. All

Aimee:

right. Super. All right. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, absolutely. My pleasure.

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